Monday, March 5, 2007

What's the sign for "You're Welcome"

Follow-up vlog and responses on ASL sign "You're Welcome"


If you want to see the original see the other vlog below


To: ALL ASL users...this is for YOU.

Help me on my life-long mission to eliminate the erraneous sign for "you're welcome"

Thank you! You have blessed me!

68 comments:

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah! I agreed with you.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah! I agreed with you.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah! I agreed with you.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah! I agreed with you.

Michele said...

Haha! I mostly use one hand for "welcome" when people say thank you, is that proper? I don't sign "W", but I use a closed hand sweeping from out to inside, like you used two hands to express your welcome when people come to your house but I use one hand instead. Your thought on this? As I see some deafies use this sign as well for welcome.

BEG said...

Pretty funny, I was just reading this:
http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-signs/w/welcome.htm

That W version looks odd to me. Is this maybe regional? I tend to see FINE/COOL used...

drmzz said...

Here is MY VLOG RESPONSE.

What's my pet peeve is those who have to say, "My first name is... and my last name is..." Excuse me, I know what consists of a name. ;)

Mike S

Anonymous said...

Ther is no such welcome sign in ASL if you ask a d/Deaf person of five deaf generations, all coming from residential schools. There is no such Welcome sign in ASL! We nod our heads to respond to a thank you sign. Or say thumbs up after someone says thanks, Deaf ot Deaf. To say welcome to our home we sign "come" with a friendly head nod.

If you want to be cross cultural, sign welcome like what David Martin demonstrated without the dreaded "W" handshape. It stays in TC classrooms .

Larry said...

David,
In your vlog you state, "stop using the WORD "welcome" (while you sign with the "W" handhape.

What I think you really want to imply is you wish people would stop using the SIGN (not the WORD) "welcome-with-the-w-handshape"

To ask people to stop using the WORD doesn't seem to be what you're really trying to convey.

Later (about 3/4 of the way through the video, you state, "stop using the sign."

It is interesting to view videos, because what we mean to say is not always what we sign!

Am I correct?

Larry in Kauai

Chuck said...

You are absolute right!

I am glad you've mentioned it, You are not alone.

cb

Anonymous said...

David,

I'm glad you brought it up because I use "You're Welcome" (the ones you portray with an "F handshape" or is it an "F-classifier"?? along with a quick movement forward and hold. I favor this sign. :)

asldeb said...

sigh...many deafies still sign "W". That is their habit because when people gave something, you sign "thank you", they sign "Welcome" with one hand not "W". Wait and see if all have learned something and pah stop using it "W" :-)

ASL said...

Yes, you are absolutely right. I never that sign in welcome after they said thank you! I always said thumb up and no plm. Yes I hate to see "you are welcome or welcome" in deaf community. I think very few of them still saying "welcome" but I am sure people read this and making some rumors then they will stop using it.

brenster said...

like david said, WELCOME sign means to invite someone to enter, or to welcome someone into someplace, and even can be used as "you're welcome" only when saying you are welcome to visit or come over next time. BUT to respond to THANK-YOU, we don't use WELCOME. If we signed WELCOME for that situation, we are borrowing English expression, but that is not ASL expression. i remember when i was little, i never used WELCOME for that instance until a hearing teacher told me to say "you are welcome" (yes in signed english!), and that seems this borrowed expression became a habit and eventually "you are" signs were dropped and used english "welcome" with "W" or "flat-B" handshape. i know that many Deaf people didn't realize that. That is precisely what MishkaZena tried to point out about having ASL clinic at Gallaudet!!! (and there should be ASL clinic at every Deaf schools!)

anyway, i always explained that in ASL I.

To respond in ASL expression, do what David said in his vlog.

David, good discussion. there are many other examples like that, but right now i can't think of one. need to look into my old notes.

Toby Welch said...

I agree with you. "W" is English. We need to stop that. I don't teach that way. I want to eliminate any English stuff from ASL. I am glad that you brought up!

Blessings.

Noah said...

I tend to sign "fine" in respond to thank yous. Replying to my friends, I sign "sure" instead. What do you think?

I am solidly behind you on the mission!

gnarlydorkette said...

Other words/signs you can use are "nothing-to-it", "don't worry", "no problem"...

I often use "nothing-to-it", just similar to SPanish's "de nada".
Californian all the way!

Anonymous said...

hi, david,

just fyi that i was confused with that sign for a long time. then MJ Benevune (spelling?) had time to describe what that sign really means, to thank back. needless to say i was flabbergasted at myself for not asking what it even means. gosh, i felt like I reborn that day. That "w" sign needs to go! period, no question about it.

how do we approach the other who use that so called sign?? smile.. deafk

Jessica said...

Makes sense. Good to remind me as I have learned that a few years back. Thanks for sharing.

Also is there a resource where ASL teachers can get together online to collaborate on their teaching like maybe through ASLTA using vlogs/blogs? I was wondering after watching Carl's vlog on ASL Dice game and also watching you and Toby share information about your ASL teaching. Thought it was good to watch all of you share your ideas here.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with you and I have a problem with this because "you're welcome" to respond to "thank you" is a different meaning than "wecome to my home" or "welcome to my church". Both are not the same definition. Same word but different meaning.

Is there a strict guideline on how to use certain signs? too many deafs use that to respond to thank yous. The proper way to respond to a thank you is to say "you are welcome". Thanks but no thanks. I think I'll stick with what I normally do

Lantana said...

I agree with one of your anonymous :( readers, if you go back 4 or 5 deaf generations there is no sign for "welcome". As for your "W" sign, you can thank Total Communication and their initialized signing for that one.

A smile and a head nod is plenty. I do not know how it got started that there is a sign for every word known to man. We always did alot of fingerspelling! If I wanted someone to feel REALLY WELCOME, I would fingerspell the word!

FRED said...

Hey! I love what you brought up! This has been a pet peeve for me as well, I have been teaching ASL for a long time, and I have emphasized not to use that sign, "W" hand shape, etc. I have always emphasized that we would use at least ... either one of the comments mentioned above, nod of head, respond in anyway, but not the "W" thingy.

I would just emphasize something to do with an invitation card, invitation to a party, church like you mentioned, etc.

The strange thing about this, often hearing students, kept on saying but, is there a "sign" for it? Because they're so captivated with English not the Visual Concept.

Keep on stretching our minds!!

Judge said...

David,

Here is my response to this..

http://my.videoegg.com/video/dKwRpH

I hated same thing!! Some interpreters on several VRS still use very wrong sign!!! :)

Anonymous said...

Sighing "W" in english is really EEEWWW sore eyes!! Thanks for brought it up!! I use thumb up or signing no problem. I told my ASL students about that. Hope they remember NOT to sign "W" welcome.

CMS from Boston

Anonymous said...

As teacher of ASL and Deaf Culture classes, I always tell my students that "You're welcome" is part of English and hearing culture. ASL uses differently. If a student starts to argue or question that, I always tell them, in other cultures like the one that has women walking behind men, are you to tell them that they are wrong? It is their culture, accept it.

Same with Deaf culture and ASL, tell the hearing people or people who are stubborn on that, ACCEPT our beautiful language and culture.

Anonymous said...

I tried posting my first comment but it didnt get thru.

I just wanted tell you that I love (kiss fist) how you shared your pet peeve. It would be awesome if you could start weekly "David's ASL Pet Peeve of the week" to have this kind of discussion about our language on regular basis.

I agree with you about the "welcome" concept. Personally, I always say "Sure!" Or "No problem". I have seen some people say, "I am happy to do this"

Julie Rems-Smario

Oscar the Observer said...

*laugh*

Yeah, I remember I had an interpreter who taught me about distinctions between two meanings and how they apply in signing. She gave a cool example. You know how Spanish speakers say Your welcome? well they say and it is only English transliteration "Of nothing" the words are "de nada". Basically translate into no problem or your welcome... interesting, isn't it? :)

Anonymous said...

Even I grew up as an Deaf Oralist (til I entered Gallaudet in '84) - I would never use "W" welcome in signing. I am strongly into ASL and Deaf Culture!

A Deaf Bostonian

mishkazena said...

Interesting.I never thought of this. I've always used the flat handshape for welcome, not the W, but yeah your explanation makes sense.

Thanks for the ASL lesson :)

SDA said...

David,
Thank you! I am glad you brought this up. I have discussed this with my Level 4 ASL class often. It is distressing at times to learn that my students picked that up from some Deaf people and I would often find myself trying to justify the reason behind their saying that and why I choose to approach it differently.
Anyway - I am not sure if I would agree that the issue is that it is not a conceptually accurate sign. My view is that it is more of a culturally inappropriate response.
Or we could be discussing two separate things.
One is that we want to get rid of the intialized sign with the "W".
The other is the use of the word WELCOME in response to a THANK-YOU.
Yes, you are right - we, the Deaf, would usually respond with FINE-FINE; SURE-SURE; NO PROBLEM; etc.
Hey, I happen to have my own pet-peeves also.
I cringe when my Deaf people sign with a "X" handshape from the side of temple to side of chin when referring to SEX or SEXUAL. That sign with "X" from head to chin was derived from SEE! It meant gender. It refers to male and female, etc. It has no rightful place in ASL, really. Can you beg your viewers and ASL teachers to refrain from using that pitful sign?
How about signing PAH or SUCCESS with index fingers starting at neutural location in the air away from face, rather than having the index fingers touching the chin first, eeeek?!?
I know our lists can go on longer... :-/

drmzz said...

Ditto what you said, mishkazena. Learned something new and I thought we were a polite bunch of people, but guess not. :) I tend to use the puckered lip and "f" for Ok sign and "no problem."

Anonymous said...

David:

You are correct! I am getting tired of English first letter signs, for example: Bus = B, Truck = T, Car = C, Fair = F and etc. This damage came from the public school system that uses SEE.

When students attend colleges and universities should be learning ASL and refrain from using SEE. However, many Deaf people do use first letter English signs and it spreads like wildfire.

I have a question for you, David. Is it proper to correct Deaf people's sign? Like for example, "My Dad has a huge T (truck sign)." Do we correct the Deaf or accept them as they are? Which is correct?

Keep up the great work!

DeafLinux

Anonymous said...

http://pegnsean.net/~occupant/deaf.wmv

Jay said...

SDA

I thought sex involves male and female. How should sex be signed? or spelled as S-E-X? Or those more graphic ones involving both hands?

Grinning.

Anonymous said...

That "Welcome" sign is one of my pet peeves too, "B", "C", "T", etc for bus, car, truck is already on my list!

My other pet peeve is breakfast, lunch, dinner. B-on-chin, and on. Those annoys me!!! Should be EAT-MORNING for breakfast, EAT-NOON for lunch, EAT-NIGHT for dinner.

Denise

Anonymous said...

Now I have a question... if a deaf and hearing person are chatting through an interpreter, and the deaf person says "thank you" and the hearing person says "you're welcome", how is the interpreter supposed to interpret it?

David A. Martin said...

Hello Anonymous 3/7 at 12:39pm

Same as I showed on my video. Thumbs up. "F" handshape or others. If the interpreter feels must show the word "welcome" then fingerspell.

Anonymous said...

Interesting topic! :-)

Thanks for explaining clear and makes more sense. I sometime says, "welcome" for last response (one hand back swing). I like the way with saying (thumb up or curve f handshape) is really properly way.

SEE has no defination at all in the end.

Welcome is meaning for comes in home, church, etc.

I love ASL of every minute and still learning..:-)

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michele said...

Wow thanks for the discussion, I wonder about the old timers who used ASL, did they sign "no problem, use peace sign or whatever" as these signs seem modernized to me. If not, how did they respond back when people thanked them?? Do you know, David?

Ella Lentz said...

Want to emphasize what a few of your commenters said....that responding to expressions of gratitude is cultural. We ASL signers need to try and stop thinking or mouthing in English when giving ASL signs. They have no connection. They are separate and distinct languages. Yes, GLOSSES are cause of many of these problems, sigh! More and more I am inclined to urge establishment of a formal ASL writing system that is NOT based on glosses.
Anyway, my favorite comparison of responding to expressions of gratitude is using Spanish's "da nada" ("for nothing"). Someone said it is a humble way to say that it was no problem to do the favor and that the English "You are Welcome" is pretty arrogant...again cultural related? Americans and British arrogant? Thanks David for vlogging about this ASL "tip" and I support that we need to share this with everybody who signs.

Anonymous said...

Interesting...I never thought of this like that. At first, it appears to be far-fetched but once I've absorbed the concept behind those words - to my surprise, David appears to be correct about this. Only one thing (or two, maybe) I could add to this. When was the last time did a deaf person ACTUALLY say "you're welcome - or 'welcome'" during a conversation which involves the thanks (gratitute, appreication, etc)...BUT didn't we do it in the presence of a hearing person? As David said - out of our subconcious as result of our upbringing in an institute? Mm? Good choice of debate, David.

grace said...

I completely agree with you. I grew up in deaf family and really didnt use word welcome till I started school and to this day still felt uncomfortable using welcome. Saying "sure" in place of welcome is more comfortable for me. When a hearing person asks me how to sign welcome.. It usually gives me a pause.. and I tell them to use "flat hand swing" after all they do live in a hearing world.. Right or wrong.. that is how I deal with that instance.
Grace

Lisa said...

David,
Just wanted to let you know that I emailed my friend who sent the comment about the sign langauge (TC) asking for forgiveness for my being insenstive in my comment. She responsed telling me not to worry about it and she said that she still felt like she was my mom since I lost my mother/best friend a few years ago.

No need to publish my comment.

Thanks,
Lisa

Anonymous said...

Well, I would use "W" fingerspelling to say welcome to hearing people who sign or not. No "W" fingerspelling can be used between deaf people, it is not necessary. I am deaf, I feel comfortable to use either "W" or not since it is not a rule, it is my "accent" or habit. You haven't told about YOUR preference the way of using sign for "welcome" to non-ASL hearing people, what about it? Write note, nod head, thumb-up, wink? Is it ASL or gesture? Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Curious of your thoughts on the signs on the nose.. someone commented to me that almost all signs on the nose are 'negative'. Example: bored, suspect, doubt, old n sign for black people, etc..
The sign for kids - under the nostrils - negative view. It's better to sign kids in the children sign. Hope to see your dicussion on this on the next vlog. Thanks! Enjoy watching you..

Anonymous said...

Curious of your thoughts on the sign on the nose.. someone had commented that those signs on the nose are often 'negative' words. Bored, ugly, doubt, dont'care, stinky, and kids. It's hard to do the fast figure for the positive signs on the nose. Thanks

Anonymous said...

David,
I disagree with you about not used welcome.. that s uneducated. Depend on where your family come from .That s why deaf kid grew up no communicate with hearing. Hearing parnet didnt teach deaf kids how to be manner because of lack communicate. I grew up with a deaf friend from deaf family with 4-5 th generation,They still sign welcome as manner. Thumb up and F sign.. ohh my my ... it looks like retard educated.. maybe you graduated from retard school. I dont want to be animal speaking manner or retard F or thumb up. They will make fun of you ha ha ha F... F.. lol.. Thumb up.. LOL.. LOl.. lol with face look like retard.. I know that.. ..hummmm

Anonymous said...

David,

I totally DISAGREE with you. I always sign welcome without using "w". It is more proper way to say instead of signing "okay", thumbs up, etc, they're NOT true sign.

By the way, I was shocked you married to Debbie Colons (former maiden name). WE both went to Gally during 80's.....

Anonymous said...

Let me ask you ~ Is "F" sign as an okay really ASL? I don't think so because the "F" sign as "OK" is more like gesture rather than ASL. It can be used anywhere in the world therefore it is NOT true ASL.

Anonymous said...

You can't control over that. Whether you like it or not, that's too bad. Again, You said it is okay to sign "F" as an okay. What the Heck?!?! That is NOT an ASL. That is GESTURE, get it, David? Wake up?!? Drink a strong coffee to wake you up.

Gesture sign is NOT a part of ASL.

Anonymous said...

Whine! Whine! Whine! I want you to elmimate some signs such as "F" as an okay, and thumbs up. Anonoymous on March 21st at 12:10pm is right. Do you have a linguistic certification? Do you have a Ph.D in ASL Linguistic?

Anonymous said...

I disagree with you, David. "Thumbs UP" is a NO-NO. "F" sign like okay is A NO-NO.

Anonymous said...

"Welcome" Really I don't know that word to say "welcome" never to say when someone said "thank you" to me.So I always said "welcome" until I read on Vlog from you explained not do that. Hit my heart. But I don't understand why in any stores I had been asked from workers I know them wanted to know what sign language for "Welcome" I showed one of them how to say. They seem manner to me.

Anonymous said...

WoW..I see alot of agree and disagree..Hmm...I want to express my opinion. I think and I am sorry to say this David but you're wrong about using "F" as okay or thumbs up as okay.I agree with other saying that it was more like gesture rather than actual ASL signs. I think we should sign "welcome" without using "w" sign.

Shel said...

Hi David,

Your vlog on this topic is quite timely. I had a discussion with my other deaf colleagues about the issue of "welcome" and right vs wrong use of that term in ASL just last week. I'm a Deaf teacher at a school for the Deaf in Ontario. I would like to request your permission to show your vlog to both hearing and deaf colleagues as well as our deaf students during ASL Announcement Time tomorrow. Please either leave your reply on your blogsite, or mine (Shel: A Deaf Canadian's Thoughts).

Thank you,
Shelley Potma

Shel said...

David, if you attempted to email me on my blogsite, my apologies. I realized that I hadn't added my email link on my profile. I have just done so now.

Shelley

Lantana said...

We need to keep in mind that many of the deaf people bloggng nowdays were in school during the "Total Communication" days and alot of it stuck. Initialized signing was introduced then and some people found it helpful and continued to use it.

I think we need to keep an open mind.

Lantana
Lantana's Latitude.

Anonymous said...

I am a newbie to signing. I was just searching the net for how to say you're welcome in Sign Language. After reading your posts, I am confused even more. I don't understand WHY saying you're welcome for something is not appropriate. I don't understand why using a phrase doubly is wrong. Lots of cultures do this. A word can have multiple meanings and it depends on how you say it. So if the welcome sign is given after a kind act or something deserving why is this wrong?

Jeppedy said...

Well, if you "mission" was to have people better know how to respond politely to "Thank you", you've all failed. I came googling looking for what to do, so as to be polite, and so I might teach my children some basic "good to know" signs. Your YouTube was all signed (understandable), with no subtitles or even comments. Then, you all can't agree on a common proper response.

So me, If I didn't know to use the "W" thing before, I might just start using it. Because if you all are complaining that it's used so much, it just might be the closest things to a standard there is out there. It's like Windows; We all hate it, but if everyone uses it...

Anonymous said...

I'm so glad I found your vlog! I'm learning ASL with my 20 month old son, and had been searching the internet for the sign for "you're welcome." Now I know to stop searching!

One said...

I am so confused and don't know which sign to use. first it's first its the hand sweeping from forehead, the "w" on the chin. Maybe I'll just wink or something from now on.

Anonymous said...

If a student starts to argue or question that, I always tell them, in other cultures like the one that has women walking behind men, are you to tell them that they are wrong? It is their culture, accept it.

But you're welcome is a very important part of manners in the spoken english culture, so why can't it be accepted both ways? I have a 28 month old apraxic boy who we are struggling to teach to speak. Manners are very important and these are one thing I have taught him in signs. It bothers me extremely that I can't find a sign to use for him for you're welcome. It seems very rude to me for him to ask me "Please, thank you" for something and then I just say nothing. I should have the same courtesy to him as he has to me because we should all respect each other as individuals. I respect him so I should show him thanks for his courtesy. I mean hopefully some day he will be able to speak English but this bothers me immensely that there is nothing to use.

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